I would too, but it really depends on the company. If I can do it, I’m WFH for the rest of my career for companies < 1000 people.
FAANG (or whatever it is these days) are awful fucking people to work for. One of the developers I respect most in my career walked out on .5M in bonuses on Amazon because of their ranking system for his employees. I was shocked.
But depending on the employer it’s still a very good gig. But if you’re at the wrong place, it’s like the upper circles of hell.
One of the developers I respect most in my career walked out on .5M in bonuses on Amazon because of their ranking system for his employees. I was shocked.
This also shows what an incredibly privileged position techies have in the job market. I totally understand quitting Amazon. Really, I wouldn’t want to work there either. But ask one of their warehouse workers if they’d ever quit and forfeit a 0.5M bonus…
Companies like Amazon can pull this off because of stock grants. (And I don’t think they give out stock grants to warehouse workers, but I could be wrong.)
When they hire a developer, especially one who already has the relevant experience they for, they will say “On top of the salary and bonus, we will also give you $200k worth of stock”. But that stock can’t be sold right away; it goes into an account where it vests over some number of years, every 6 months. Your only condition for vesting the stock is being employed. If you leave for any reason, or even get laid off, you give up the rest.
Sometimes you also get smaller awards with your yearly review, subject to the same terms. They do this so that if you are a key developer, leaving would mean you forfeit this large account you have accumulated on paper. But in the back of your mind, you know that if your project gets canceled and you don’t find a new one in the company, that money goes poof also. So it’s play money until it vests, anyway. And there is always another vesting event coming sometime in the next few months.
And I don’t think they give out stock grants to warehouse workers, but I could be wrong.
Yeah. That’s my point. And still people take these jobs and work very hard indeed. Try explaining “limited bathroom break time” to your average tech worker.
Average Amazon .com Warehouse Worker hourly pay in the United States is approximately $16.96, which is 7% above the national average.
People don’t seem to understand the average worker would kill to make $80/hour and $200k in RSUs. Not a dream job, right.
My point is that while it seems insane to leave half a million in RSUs to leave a company, if the person thinks their job is in a precarious position, it’s extremely unlikely they would ever have vested them all anyway. So the money was never really theirs to begin with.
Now, is that DevOps engineer worth that much more than the warehouse guy who picks the item to send to you? I doubt it. But it seems like that’s the going rate for a competent DevOps engineer with the relevant experience. While the qualifications to be in the warehouse are not quite so stringent.
The big difference between IT and Devops is that IT fixes a problem, Devops solves it. In IT roles, I’m usually stuck pissing on the same fires over and over. In Devops roles, I’m given the time to go get a hose and put the fire out.
I’m not sure if it’s intentionally being left out here, but if you have half a million in unvested stock, any competing offer from another FAANG company is likely giving you a stock match, or at least somewhere close to match.
The golden handcuffs aren’t as tight as people make them seem.
Now, is that DevOps engineer worth that much more than the warehouse guy who picks the item to send to you?
This is going to make me sound like a prick, but yeah the DevOps guy is worth more than the warehouse guy, maybe not 500k more but still alot more.
It all comes down to how many package deliveries 1 warehouse guy can facilitate vs 1 DevOps guy. Speaking as someone who worked at a warehouse (package distribution fedex) for a short period of time, moving boxes is nowhere near as valuable.
Not to say it’s not crucial, but the ratio of engineers:package handlers needed is really high
I would too, but it really depends on the company. If I can do it, I’m WFH for the rest of my career for companies < 1000 people.
FAANG (or whatever it is these days) are awful fucking people to work for. One of the developers I respect most in my career walked out on .5M in bonuses on Amazon because of their ranking system for his employees. I was shocked.
But depending on the employer it’s still a very good gig. But if you’re at the wrong place, it’s like the upper circles of hell.
This also shows what an incredibly privileged position techies have in the job market. I totally understand quitting Amazon. Really, I wouldn’t want to work there either. But ask one of their warehouse workers if they’d ever quit and forfeit a 0.5M bonus…
Companies like Amazon can pull this off because of stock grants. (And I don’t think they give out stock grants to warehouse workers, but I could be wrong.)
When they hire a developer, especially one who already has the relevant experience they for, they will say “On top of the salary and bonus, we will also give you $200k worth of stock”. But that stock can’t be sold right away; it goes into an account where it vests over some number of years, every 6 months. Your only condition for vesting the stock is being employed. If you leave for any reason, or even get laid off, you give up the rest.
Sometimes you also get smaller awards with your yearly review, subject to the same terms. They do this so that if you are a key developer, leaving would mean you forfeit this large account you have accumulated on paper. But in the back of your mind, you know that if your project gets canceled and you don’t find a new one in the company, that money goes poof also. So it’s play money until it vests, anyway. And there is always another vesting event coming sometime in the next few months.
Yeah. That’s my point. And still people take these jobs and work very hard indeed. Try explaining “limited bathroom break time” to your average tech worker.
People don’t seem to understand the average worker would kill to make $80/hour and $200k in RSUs. Not a dream job, right.
My point is that while it seems insane to leave half a million in RSUs to leave a company, if the person thinks their job is in a precarious position, it’s extremely unlikely they would ever have vested them all anyway. So the money was never really theirs to begin with.
Now, is that DevOps engineer worth that much more than the warehouse guy who picks the item to send to you? I doubt it. But it seems like that’s the going rate for a competent DevOps engineer with the relevant experience. While the qualifications to be in the warehouse are not quite so stringent.
If they could pay less for a dev ops, they would.
So yes, the dev ops guy has higher market value than warehouse guy. It’s basic stats.
Practically anyone can be warehouse guy. I can’t be dev ops guy, even with 35 years years in IT.
The big difference between IT and Devops is that IT fixes a problem, Devops solves it. In IT roles, I’m usually stuck pissing on the same fires over and over. In Devops roles, I’m given the time to go get a hose and put the fire out.
I’m not sure if it’s intentionally being left out here, but if you have half a million in unvested stock, any competing offer from another FAANG company is likely giving you a stock match, or at least somewhere close to match.
The golden handcuffs aren’t as tight as people make them seem.
That’s no guarantee, though, it would have to be negotiated. And let’s face it, most devs aren’t the best at negotiating…
I would argue that devs getting 500k in stocks are at least decent at negotiating and other soft skills.
You don’t get that kind of compensation for just having tech chops.
Sure you do, the Bay Area is full of below average devs with RSUs.
This is going to make me sound like a prick, but yeah the DevOps guy is worth more than the warehouse guy, maybe not 500k more but still alot more.
It all comes down to how many package deliveries 1 warehouse guy can facilitate vs 1 DevOps guy. Speaking as someone who worked at a warehouse (package distribution fedex) for a short period of time, moving boxes is nowhere near as valuable.
Not to say it’s not crucial, but the ratio of engineers:package handlers needed is really high