Everything was clear about Mozilla the moment they started fighting the ecosystem around Gecko, with alternative browsers, useful extensions and so on. And, of course, the old usable UI.
People just forget what they don’t know how to process.
Disagree, XUL was a dead end that either needed shooting behind the bike shed or it’d have taken Mozilla down with it inevitably. It froze their internal architecture to a design that didn’t care about multicore or modern security. Switching to a proper extension api (it didn’t matter if it was chromes or their own, only that they are willing to make their own decisions, like in manifest v3).
That said, I suspect the real death blow was when they killed servo, that project was their distant salvation, a chance to genuinely outcompete technologically and direct where browsers need to go next. I too hope I’m wrong and they can figure out a path forward, but they’ve shown little ambition from the top, so I’m not holding my breath.
Edit: you could argue that the solution to XUL should have been an upgrade to modern design rather than death, but that would have just been an expensive temporary reprieve, the world doesn’t stop changing, it was always going to be slow to correct to whatever direction they needed to go next (and meanwhile every extension dev would be screaming murder every time they killed some braindead api designed 20 years ago).
Edit: you could argue that the solution to XUL should have been an upgrade to modern design rather than death, but that would have just been an expensive temporary reprieve, the world doesn’t stop changing,
I’m not sure what do you mean by that. No deep customization at all is, of course, easier to support than some.
I don’t care about preserving the feel of XUL, or any aesthetics, but I do care about its role.
It’s not about specific extensions and specific language. It’s about the “before” allowing things like Conkeror and any kind of appearance change conceivable and the “after” - not, if we don’t count stupid CSS that breaks with every update.
I think it’s another example of “internet bubbles” - people with similar views tend to congregate together and this is particularly true on the internet, when going elsewhere is always just a mouse-click away.
When ChatGPT first launched, Lemmy was still pretty much a ghost town, and it did cause a lot of optimistic excitement e.g. on reddit. Lemmy got a big surge in numbers when reddit did its infamous API changes - enshittification driven by spez’s and other reddit executives’ insatiable lust to exploit the site for more and more money.
Perhaps for this reason, people on Lemmy are more averse to the enshittification trend and generally exploitive nature of large tech companies. I think this is what people on Lemmy object to - tech companies’ concentration of power and profits by ripping off the general public - not so much the concept of LLMs themselves, but the fact they could easily be used to further inequality in society.
The claim was that people on lemmy treated openai as saints when chatgpt first came out, I never saw anything like that and I’ve been here for 5 years. https://lemmy.ml/u/communist
i’ve never seen this on lemmy, other places, sure, but not once on lemmy.
Yes you’re right, sorry I went off on a tangent about the reasons for the intense negativity in the Lemmyverse about LLMs. I’ve been using lemmy for four years, and definitely don’t think there has ever been any positive feelings towards LLMs here, especially as ChatGPT’s arrival predates the first surge of users on Lemmy (and the subsequent appearance of all the instances we see today). On reddit, yes, and there are still many people there who still think OpenAI is great.
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Weird, I said this shit for years, and I was upvoted into the heavens, agreed with, called a hero, and acknowledged as a result.
Maybe is not what was being said?
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Heh, I warn about Mozilla/Firefox all the time and get the same. I hope I’m wrong though :(
Everything was clear about Mozilla the moment they started fighting the ecosystem around Gecko, with alternative browsers, useful extensions and so on. And, of course, the old usable UI.
People just forget what they don’t know how to process.
Disagree, XUL was a dead end that either needed shooting behind the bike shed or it’d have taken Mozilla down with it inevitably. It froze their internal architecture to a design that didn’t care about multicore or modern security. Switching to a proper extension api (it didn’t matter if it was chromes or their own, only that they are willing to make their own decisions, like in manifest v3).
That said, I suspect the real death blow was when they killed servo, that project was their distant salvation, a chance to genuinely outcompete technologically and direct where browsers need to go next. I too hope I’m wrong and they can figure out a path forward, but they’ve shown little ambition from the top, so I’m not holding my breath.
Edit: you could argue that the solution to XUL should have been an upgrade to modern design rather than death, but that would have just been an expensive temporary reprieve, the world doesn’t stop changing, it was always going to be slow to correct to whatever direction they needed to go next (and meanwhile every extension dev would be screaming murder every time they killed some braindead api designed 20 years ago).
XUL itself - of course.
I’m not sure what do you mean by that. No deep customization at all is, of course, easier to support than some.
I don’t care about preserving the feel of XUL, or any aesthetics, but I do care about its role.
It’s not about specific extensions and specific language. It’s about the “before” allowing things like Conkeror and any kind of appearance change conceivable and the “after” - not, if we don’t count stupid CSS that breaks with every update.
I only see negative posts about openai, I kinda find this unbelievable, do you have any examples?
I don’t think you’ve paid enough attention. Back when ChatGPT first launched, they were treated as saints.
The negative opinions have corresponded with public sentiment souring towards them in general (this did happen quite quickly, however).
Can you provide even one example? AI is my autistic obsession, and I never saw anything like that on lemmy even once.
I was even regularly searching for “AI” using the search feature daily.
I have never once seen this, and I don’t find it believable at all, honestly.
I think it’s another example of “internet bubbles” - people with similar views tend to congregate together and this is particularly true on the internet, when going elsewhere is always just a mouse-click away.
When ChatGPT first launched, Lemmy was still pretty much a ghost town, and it did cause a lot of optimistic excitement e.g. on reddit. Lemmy got a big surge in numbers when reddit did its infamous API changes - enshittification driven by spez’s and other reddit executives’ insatiable lust to exploit the site for more and more money.
Perhaps for this reason, people on Lemmy are more averse to the enshittification trend and generally exploitive nature of large tech companies. I think this is what people on Lemmy object to - tech companies’ concentration of power and profits by ripping off the general public - not so much the concept of LLMs themselves, but the fact they could easily be used to further inequality in society.
The claim was that people on lemmy treated openai as saints when chatgpt first came out, I never saw anything like that and I’ve been here for 5 years. https://lemmy.ml/u/communist
i’ve never seen this on lemmy, other places, sure, but not once on lemmy.
Yes you’re right, sorry I went off on a tangent about the reasons for the intense negativity in the Lemmyverse about LLMs. I’ve been using lemmy for four years, and definitely don’t think there has ever been any positive feelings towards LLMs here, especially as ChatGPT’s arrival predates the first surge of users on Lemmy (and the subsequent appearance of all the instances we see today). On reddit, yes, and there are still many people there who still think OpenAI is great.
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One example and I shutup
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On lemmy?
[citation needed]
https://lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz/search?q=openai&type=Posts&listingType=All&page=1&sort=TopAll I just tried this, went back 2 pages, not even one positive post, dunno what you’re talking about.
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??? I only see people talking about the negative of both of these on lemmy. Maybe reddit, sure, I have no idea there, but on lemmy??
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I have never seen a positive post about openai get upvotes on lemmy, not even when they started.
I have never seen a positive post about elon musk on lemmy that got upvoted…
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Yeah but it certainly doesn’t mean it does exist just because you said so.
Something stinks.
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