Here’s one thing I can say with absolute certainty: If there was a magical way to eliminate the genocidal threats facing Israel and bring about peace in the Middle East without a single civilian death, Israel would take that option. Israel haters won’t accept that because they’ve been brainwashed to think that Israel is itself a genocidal threat, intent on taking over the Middle East. Which, for many people, is a reflection of some underlying antisemitic sentiments.
such as Gazans and Palestinians who just want to sit this one out and live their lives>
I will be honest, though. I’m not sure how many of them would fit in this category. And that’s something I’m struggling with because I used to consider myself fairly left-wing and quite tolerant and respectful of diversity. But I just haven’t seen much if anything over the past 100 years to suggest that there is a critical mass of Palestinian people who are interested in peaceful coexistence. Quite the opposite, actually. But I think the coming days and weeks following Sinwar’s death will be very telling because this does represent the best opportunity the people of Gaza have since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005. Will they choose a different future for themselves, one that focuses on hope and peace? Or will they choose to continue the cycle of violence?
Here’s one thing I can say with absolute certainty: If there was a magical way to eliminate the genocidal threats facing Israel and bring about peace in the Middle East without a single civilian death, Israel would take that option
It is my hope that you are right.
such as Gazans and Palestinians who just want to sit this one out and live their lives
I will be honest, though. I’m not sure how many of them would fit in this category.
It shows a majority of Palestinians want a two state solution and a majority do not support Hamas, for example.
the best opportunity the people of Gaza have since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005. Will they choose a different future for themselves, one that focuses on hope and peace? Or will they choose to continue the cycle of violence?
How will they do that? I mean, what are the practical mechanics here for these folks to register their choice? What, even, are the specific options being presented to them?
I don’t recall them being asked to vote in a referendum or something similar. Mostly I just see things like this, https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/middleeast/gaza-jabalya-idf-shooting-intl/index.html - which suggests a complete absence of choice altogether. I’m not clear on how would even a pro-Israeli Zionist who lives in Gaza and is ethnically Palestinian could get registered as a friend to pro-Israeli forces.
Palestinian people who are interested in peaceful coexistence. Quite the opposite, actually.
I don’t doubt that there are some out there, all I’m saying is that I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re not a small minority. Oppressed people have protested publicly in many other countries but we don’t hear anything from the Palestinians against Hamas. Why don’t we hear anything about underground Palestinian peace movements? Where are the videos of people denouncing Hamas? They’ve been decimated by the IDF and now Sinwar is dead, so why aren’t people taking to the streets to celebrate?
I don’t doubt that there are some out there, all I’m saying is that I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re not a small minority.
Some ambiguity here - did you mean folks disliking Hamas (which I provided the survey showing it’s at 52%) or folks who like Israel (using folks who dislike the US as a proxy, suggests less than half).
Oppressed people have protested publicly in many other countries but we don’t hear anything from the Palestinians against Hamas
I think this is answered by the C.S.M. article,
“People now are very angry with Hamas, but at the same time they are afraid to express the anger inside them by protesting or holding sit-ins,” notes Wael Mohammad, a civil engineer and longtime Hamas critic in Gaza.
Despite the rising anger, fear persists amid occasional reports of mosque imams or civil society organizers being dragged off and “disappeared” by Hamas for voicing public criticism.
Also,
Why don’t we hear anything about underground Palestinian peace movements?
I mean, we do. From the same C.S.M. article,
Protesters gathering in northern Gaza were shot at by armed men.
Finally,
Where are the videos of people denouncing Hamas?
Maybe an infrastructure issue, they’re not able to take videos because of a lack of electrical power - or can’t upload them due to a lack of internet connectivity? Not sure. But reporters on the ground are saying that this is indeed happening.
why aren’t people taking to the streets to celebrate?
Aren’t they too busy evacuating? As per the orders of the IDF? Except for those in an area with a strong Hamas presence still - those would be too afraid to go out.
Which comes back to my earlier question, even if it really is just a small minority,
I’m not clear on how would even a pro-Israeli Zionist who lives in Gaza and is ethnically Palestinian could get registered as a friend to pro-Israeli forces.
Some ambiguity here - did you mean folks disliking Hamas (which I provided the survey showing it’s at 52%) or folks who like Israel (using folks who dislike the US as a proxy, suggests less than half).>
I mean Palestinians who are willing to coexist peacefully with Israel. It isn’t just about whether they like Hamas or not, it’s about their ultimate goals.
The CSM article gives me some hope but I find it very odd that the mainstream media doesn’t seem interested in the story. The one article you can find about Gazans resisting Hamas is in the Christian Science Monitor. Bari Weiss (I think it was her) recently told a story about approaching the New York Times with an idea for an article on this very subject because she had done an interview with a Gazan who was speaking out against Hamas and in support of peace with Israel, and the NYT responded, “Nah, we’re not interested.” Almost as if Western liberal media is suppressing those stories to promote a particular decolonization narrative of the conflict…
I mean Palestinians who are willing to coexist peacefully with Israel. It isn’t just about whether they like Hamas or not, it’s about their ultimate goals.
Ah, good point. Got your meaning now.
The CSM article gives me some hope
🤞
I find it very odd that the mainstream media doesn’t seem interested in the story.
the NYT responded, “Nah, we’re not interested.” Almost as if Western liberal media is suppressing those stories to promote a particular decolonization narrative of the conflict…
Time will tell, I suppose. In any case, like all the publishers who turned down Harry Potter, I suspect they’re likely to come to deeply regret this (turning the story down).
Bari Weiss (I think it was her) recently told a story about approaching the New York Times
Would love to read more about this if you have a reference or link!
Ah, no worries and no rush. If you ever do find it, would appreciate a link to the podcast here (and if you know the minute or time marker that’d be even better!), but no big deal if it doesn’t appear right away or in the near future, either.
Here’s one thing I can say with absolute certainty: If there was a magical way to eliminate the genocidal threats facing Israel and bring about peace in the Middle East without a single civilian death, Israel would take that option. Israel haters won’t accept that because they’ve been brainwashed to think that Israel is itself a genocidal threat, intent on taking over the Middle East. Which, for many people, is a reflection of some underlying antisemitic sentiments.
It is my hope that you are right.
I don’t have exact numbers either, but they do exist, as shown by groups like https://nypost.com/2024/10/14/us-news/jewish-anti-israel-protestors-arrested-after-storming-new-york-stock-exchange/
Also, see https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-palestinians-oppose-terror-mohammed/index.html and https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2024/0314/Hamas-gambled-with-our-lives-Gazans-are-now-daring-to-speak-out
While not quite answering this question, this survey is still informative, https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2023/12/palestinians-views-oct-7
It shows a majority of Palestinians want a two state solution and a majority do not support Hamas, for example.
How will they do that? I mean, what are the practical mechanics here for these folks to register their choice? What, even, are the specific options being presented to them?
I don’t recall them being asked to vote in a referendum or something similar. Mostly I just see things like this, https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/middleeast/gaza-jabalya-idf-shooting-intl/index.html - which suggests a complete absence of choice altogether. I’m not clear on how would even a pro-Israeli Zionist who lives in Gaza and is ethnically Palestinian could get registered as a friend to pro-Israeli forces.
Where are you seeing that?
I don’t doubt that there are some out there, all I’m saying is that I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re not a small minority. Oppressed people have protested publicly in many other countries but we don’t hear anything from the Palestinians against Hamas. Why don’t we hear anything about underground Palestinian peace movements? Where are the videos of people denouncing Hamas? They’ve been decimated by the IDF and now Sinwar is dead, so why aren’t people taking to the streets to celebrate?
Some ambiguity here - did you mean folks disliking Hamas (which I provided the survey showing it’s at 52%) or folks who like Israel (using folks who dislike the US as a proxy, suggests less than half).
I think this is answered by the C.S.M. article,
Also,
I mean, we do. From the same C.S.M. article,
Finally,
Maybe an infrastructure issue, they’re not able to take videos because of a lack of electrical power - or can’t upload them due to a lack of internet connectivity? Not sure. But reporters on the ground are saying that this is indeed happening.
Aren’t they too busy evacuating? As per the orders of the IDF? Except for those in an area with a strong Hamas presence still - those would be too afraid to go out.
Which comes back to my earlier question, even if it really is just a small minority,
I mean Palestinians who are willing to coexist peacefully with Israel. It isn’t just about whether they like Hamas or not, it’s about their ultimate goals.
The CSM article gives me some hope but I find it very odd that the mainstream media doesn’t seem interested in the story. The one article you can find about Gazans resisting Hamas is in the Christian Science Monitor. Bari Weiss (I think it was her) recently told a story about approaching the New York Times with an idea for an article on this very subject because she had done an interview with a Gazan who was speaking out against Hamas and in support of peace with Israel, and the NYT responded, “Nah, we’re not interested.” Almost as if Western liberal media is suppressing those stories to promote a particular decolonization narrative of the conflict…
Ah, good point. Got your meaning now.
🤞
There are occasional mentions. For example, here’s a slightly more mainstream article, https://www.thedailybeast.com/robbed-silenced-and-betrayed-why-gazans-turned-away-from-hamas/
I think overall it just gets fewer clicks and views than the articles that bring up bombs and shootings and deaths. Sorta why we also don’t see as much coverage about Israel abandoning the hunt for the hostages, e.g. https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/october-7-anniversary-hostages-betrayal-netanyahu-hamas-hezbollah-20241006.html
Time will tell, I suppose. In any case, like all the publishers who turned down Harry Potter, I suspect they’re likely to come to deeply regret this (turning the story down).
Would love to read more about this if you have a reference or link!
It was mentioned on a podcast, but I listen to a lot of them so I can’t quite remember which one it was on. I’ll have to go back and find it.
Ah, no worries and no rush. If you ever do find it, would appreciate a link to the podcast here (and if you know the minute or time marker that’d be even better!), but no big deal if it doesn’t appear right away or in the near future, either.