It’s not EV’s I’m skeptical of hey.
It’s the cars they are making. The evs are all quite expensive and then all new cars seem to be taking the opportunity to tack on all these extra subscriptions and such.
I’m never buying a car where heated seats are bound to my car app account on a subscription like seriously…
We need an open source electric car.
Bless your heart if you think this is limited to EVs.
Many EV are just wasting too much energy for useless stuff. I love the dacia spring, it so reduced, that it only wights about 1000kg and still has about 200km (33kw motor and 29kw/h battery(my version))
Everyone who has ever reviewed the dacia spring recommends you stay the fuck away. It’s a cheap piece of crap, and a death-trap if you ever get in a car crash. Dacias consistently perform terribly in Euro-NCAP.
It is very efficient due to being cheap, yes (what does one expect buying a cheap car?), and is most likely a total wrack if involved in an accident, yes (had it once, luckily not my fault so got a new one for free, lol) So yea, if drive like a idiot and are likely involved in an accident, it may not be for you. It is the perfect car for me, because I live in a EV friendly country and I definitely want to drive electric and I don’t have a lot of money due to having a child since 4 years and being only 27 years old by now 😂
Most of the car subscription items don’t bother me. Many are like cosmetic skins in game. The car still works well without them. Lets look at Tesla just because they are popular:
- Full Self Drive, one-time $20k - No way is this required. Skipped it.
- Enhanced Autopilot, one-time $6k - Auto lane change and vehicle summon in a parking lot. Car drives fine without it. Skipped
- Acceleration boost, one-time $2k - Without this the car 0-60MPH is 4.2 seconds. That’s PLENTY fast for me. Skipped
- Premium connectivity, recurring $10/month or $99/year - Gives you a web browser on the dash, photoview satellite images in navigation instead of line drawing, and lets you stream music from Slacker or stream your Netflix movies from the car cell radio. I don’t need any of that and have better choices for music. I can stream video from my phone when I’m stopped if I need to.
None of that stuff is required and the usability and features of the car are still really good.
Further, for many of those factory hardware locked features there are one-time aftermarket solutions to enable them from third parties, though I have never had the need or desire for those things.
Honestly it’s sort of the principle of it.
Like the car has it, it’s already cost the manufacturer to install it sure there are ongoing dev costs for some things, but not all.
On top of that many manufacturers are locking the features to the one person.
So for example I pay for heated seats. Then I sell the car, and the new owner has to “buy” heated seats again.
I’m sorry I’m not supporting that bullshit or the manufacturers who are doing this one bit even if I don’t pay for a feature.
On top of that there are issues with servicing and also forced firmware updates.
A friend was late to work the other day because his Tesla was doing an update when he tried to leave, like what happens if someone was trying to rush a partner to a hospital or something and you happen to jump in the car as it’s mid way through an update.
I want to be in control of the things I own and pay for, that’s the whole point of owning something. Car manufacturers these days seem to be under the delusion that they still own our vehicles and we are just the money sacks they are renting them to.
This has been going on for a while, but seem much much worse on the electric cars.
Also frankly the infrastructure isn’t there in many places around the world.
It’s not just waiting to charge the car that’s the issue, it’s waiting for the charger… when each vehicle takes up to 30min-an hour to get a meaningful amount of range back suddenly you need like 10x as many charging stations as you had petrol/diesel pumps.
And while this may be in place in some places in the world it’s not in most. Add this to the fact that charging points are often out of order well you start to see the issue.
Honestly it’s sort of the principle of it. Like the car has it, it’s already cost the manufacturer to install it sure there are ongoing dev costs for some things, but not all.
I know this isn’t an obvious point, but if you got the car how you wanted it, it would actually cost more for things you may not care about. The complaint then would be “why is the car so expensive? Why don’t they sell a more basic version?”
When a manufacture has to actually build different cars with different features at time of manufacture it drives up the costs for ALL models. They can’t easy substitution when market conditions change and could be stuck with only the premium versions which cost more. A great example of this is the Ford Lightning. There were as many as 12 different model/trim levels. One of the primary complaints of prospective buyers is only the premium priced versions were on dealership lots. This is what you get.
The car is cheaper with the addons disabled. If forced to sell with all addons enabled, the car would be much more expensive for things may people don’t care about.
So for example I pay for heated seats. Then I sell the car, and the new owner has to “buy” heated seats again.
I’m not understanding your argument here. If we’re talking Tesla, and you bought the $2k Acceleration Boost, if you sold the car to someone, that $2k feature would still be there. Who is removing paid enabled addons? Can you cite an example?
On top of that there are issues with servicing and also forced firmware updates.
Besides NTSB recall firmware updates, a you can make a Tesla not force a firmware update. It may nag though.
This isn’t something new though, its just the delivery. About 18 years ago, there was a Honda firmware that I DID NOT WANT INSTALLED. I had to take the Honda 2003 car to a Honda dealer for warranty work, and SPECIFICALLY TOLD THEM NOT TO INSTALL THAT FIRMWARE. They did anyway. So this is nothing new to EVs or even modern cars.
A friend was late to work the other day because his Tesla was doing an update when he tried to leave, like what happens if someone was trying to rush a partner to a hospital or something and you happen to jump in the car as it’s mid way through an update.
Your friend may not have told you the whole story.
A Tesla firmware will prompt you when it wants to install. It will tell you “this takes about 25 minutes to complete and the car will be unusable during that time”. You can choose to install it immediately by pressing the button when prompted, or set a time for it to wake the car and install it. Even if you accidentally say “install now” it gives you a 2 minute countdown on screen to cancel it. So your buddy either scheduled it to install 30 min before he was supposed to go to work, or he hit the button to install it, waited for the entire 2 minute cancellation period to expire and did nothing.
It’s not just waiting to charge the car that’s the issue, it’s waiting for the charger… when each vehicle takes up to 30min-an hour to get a meaningful amount of range back suddenly you need like 10x as many charging stations as you had petrol/diesel pumps.
You’re projecting for a problem that likely won’t happen in the scale you’re describing. Battery tech is evolving fast. Modern batteries can charge in a fraction of time of those even sold 3 years ago. This charging speed of battery as well as faster chargers look to be solving this.
Further, 80% of EV drivers charge at home. source Nearly 0% of petrol drivers refuel at home, so comparing the two isn’t equivalent.
Ew. No, fuck tesla.
Sure fine, fuck tesla, but can you separate your feelings from Tesla for a moment to discuss the topic or do we need to shop for a brand that you are okay discussing that also has paid addon features before you contribute to the discussion?
That was my contribution to the discussion. Have a nice day!
You didn’t tell us about what you had for breakfast, the weather in your locality, or perhaps your current bathroom habits yet. Each would have been equal to your contribution to the conversation so far.
Actually it’s just pessimism of the likes of Mercedes-Benz. I’m not going to buy an expensive electrical car in the same way I’m not going to buy an expensive ICE car.
Make cheap electrical cars and we can talk.
Very true. VW had a really cheap one, and it sold out immediately. Still removed it for no reason.
MONEY
How’s BYD going? They seem unstoppable
Non-existent in the US thanks to whack-ass tariffs unfortunately. We love hindering our adoption of climate change reducing technology for political points.
My doubt about electric vehicles is based on my doubt that the automotive industry will produce a quality product at a reasonable price. They’re no different than any other short-term profit based business.
I’m really optimistic about electric vehicles, I don’t know what you’re talking about. LOL.
Are you still optimistic after looking at the price of a Mercedes EV?
I never buy new so I don’t personally care. There will be a guy selling it on Craigslist in a few years and I will buy it from him. Thus my optimism.
Where are you going to buy your replacement battery?
Where are you going to buy your replacement gasoline engine and transmission? The previous owner decided that oil change intervals were more of a guideline anyway. One big win in buying a used EV is that maintenance is minimal, so there’s less worry about how the previous owner treated the car.
I promise replacing your drivetrain at 200k is going to cost more than a battery pack.
I can get an aftermarket LiFePo battery replacement for my prius for 1/10th the cost of an OEM. It’s just a bunch of laptop batteries in a box, it really doesn’t have to be super expensive. As adoption grows aftermarket battery replacements will plummet in price.
Oh well, I changed a few years back transmission for my bmw. I bought a rebuilt one which cost 1000 euros and the shop asked 1000 euros for the work. I think there arent really prices put yet for example MB batteries as theyre still under warranty? But I’d take a guess that battery pack would be a bit more expensive.
The price in the US for a rebuilt transmission plus swap on a BMW is about $5000. So I guess it depends on location.
Mercedes has never been affordable, regardless of ICE or electric. It’s a car for the upper-middle class who want to pretend to be rich
Go to Europe, they are everywhere
Wish they would take the hybrid model and flip it. I love my gas/EV hybrid but the EV side of things is only good for 50miles or so. Its much more a gas vehicle really than an EV. Why not a primarily EV vehicle with large battery and a small gas generator for those Oh crap, I need another 50-100 miles right now with no time to charge moments?
How about you make one that doesn’t cost 30k more than a normal car… gees.
You make an excellent point!
I expect electric will soon be much cheaper than gas cars. Battery prices are still falling, despite the demand outpacing supply. Lithium refineries and mines are in the works and should be online in 5 years.
More importantly, electric cars are much simpler than gas cars. Anyone saying otherwise has no appreciation for the genius behind modern motors, transmissions, traction control and exhaust systems. There are an order of magnitude the number of moving parts in a combustion engine than an electric motor.
The price is higher because of the still-young supply chain for batteries and the infantile production lines for EVs.
My biggest EV doubt is that everyone living in a condo/apartment doesn’t have the option to install charging ports in their own parking space, so plug-in EVs are a terrible option ATM. I’ll get on board when I see the change happen but knowing landlords I’m doubtful.
Where I live, this is changing already. I suspect it comes down to your lawmakers and how you vote more than landlords. Landlords will never do something unless it makes them easy money. Though, ev chargers can be profitable, so maybe they are just dumb.
Not to mention the infrastructure upgrades it would take to mass-install enough plugs in every condo
A big part of why the tesla plug was chosen as the north american standard plug is the lack of infrastructure upgrades needed. Apparently it uses exactly 1 phase of a commercial electric line so it needs far less infrastructure to add charging if there is commercial electric already. For example they’d be able to install just an outlet on every streetlight.
Finally someone sees common sense. EV’s simply do not make sense. Petrol is the way to go. Just make the engines cleaner and leaner.
For the majority of the planet, petrol is far more accessible and affordable than electricity.
I’m sticking with petrol no matter what they say
Internal combustion has had over a century of research and engineering going into making the engines “cleaner and leaner”. It’s like squeezing blood out of a stone, that’s why you end up with features like auto-stop (where it cuts the engine if you idle for a bit) which barely save on petrol, but it’s a saving so they throw it in. Petrol is inherently dirty.
I’m sure there is more that can be done. I’ve heard that Porsche have developed a cleaner fuel that can power petrol cars. I’m waiting so that what that is.
Unfortunately the car manufacturers typically have supported the petrol suppliers, which are big powerful entities, but if they stop doing that and really focus on clean fuel, I’m sure it can be achieved.
EV’s at the moment are NOT good for the environment and create WAY more pollution than petrol cars in their manufacturing process. Making batteries produces WAY more pollution than what petrol cars with catalytic converters will ever make in a lifetime. This is a fact.
