No disrespect meant towards GamingOnLinux, but this article from Tom’s Hardware has a much better description of what’s going on, including quotes.
Sounds like hdmi Forum are a bunch of twats. Time for a new format.
DisplayPort already exists
We cannot have two standards, that’s ridiculous! We need to develop one universal standard that covers everyone’s use cases.
There are now three competing standards.
I know what you are referencing, but displayport already covers everybody’s use cases
Oh? Let me CEC on that…
I’ll just pull it up on this display that’s more than 9 feet away from the source…
Hi, my name is USB-C!
And what does that use? That’s right it’s Displayport Alternate Mode! Oh you’ve got Thunderbolt? Guess what, also Displayport!
And also USB c
USB-C display output uses the Display Port protocol
Can it use others, and is there a benefit? USB C makes a lot of sense; lower material usage, small, carries data, power and connects to almost everything now.
I believe USB-C is the only connector supported for carrying DisplayPort signals other than DisplayPort itself.
The biggest issue with USB-C for display in my opinion is that cable specs vary so much. A cable with a type c end could carry anywhere from 60-10000MB/s and deliver anywhere from 5-240W. What’s worse is that most aren’t labeled, so even if you know what spec you need you’re going to have a hell of a time finding it in a pile of identical black cables.
Not that I dislike USB-C. It’s a great connector, but the branding of USB has always been a mess.
would be neat to somehow have a standard color coding. kinda how USB 3 is (usually) blue, maybe there could be thin bands of color on the connector?
better yet, maybe some raised bumps so visually impaired people could feel what type it was. for example one dot is USB 2, two could be USB 3, etc
Have you looked at the naming of the usb standards? No you havn’t otherwise you wouldn’t make this sensible suggestion.
Yeah I have multiple USB cables, some at 30w, and some at 140w. Get them mixed up all the time! More companies need to at least brand the wattage on the connectors.
There’s some really high bandwidth stuff that USB-C isn’t rated for. You have to really press the limits, though. Something like 4k + 240Hz + HDR.
That doesn’t even seem so unreasonable. Is that the limit though? My cable puts a gigabyte a second down it so I wouldn’t imagine that would hit the limit.
USB-C with Thunderbolt currently had a limit of 40Gbit/sec. Wikipedia has a table of what DisplayPort can do at that bandwidth:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
See the section “Resolution and refresh frequency limits”. The table there shows it’d be able to do 4k/144hz/10bpp just fine, but can’t keep above 60hz for 8k.
Its an uncompressed video signal, and that takes a lot of bandwidth. Though there is a simple lossless compression mode.
It is trivial arithmetic: 4.52403840*2160 ≈ 9 GB/ s. Not even close. Even worse, that cable will struggle to get ordinary 60hz 4k delivered.
I love having mysterious cables that may or may not do things I expect them to when plugged into ports that may or may not support the features I think they do.
If the implementation is so broad that I have to break out my label maker, can we even really call it a “standard”
USB C is just a connector, you might be referring to Displayport over USB C which is basically just the same standard with a different connector at the end. That or Thunderbolt I guess
USB C seems like a good idea but in reality all it really did was take my 5 different, not interchangeable, but visually distinct, cables, and make them all look identical and require labeling
Hard to find on non-pc gear, but that’s a fair point
It’s usually easy enough to adapt it as needed. It can typically send signals compatible with HDMI and DVI-D just fine.
The passive adapters that connect to DP++ ports probably still rely on this HDMI specific driver/firmware support for these features.
can’t you just mod it?
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Linux has very little to do with DisplayPort. My Windows PCs use DisplayPort. You can get passive adapters to switch from HDMI to DisplayPort etc.
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What exactly doesnt work over HDMI?
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As already mentioned, DisplayPort exists. The problem is adoption. Even getting DisplayPort adopted as the de facto standard for PC monitors hasn’t done anything to get it built into TVs.
also there’s still no alternative to hdmi-cec
DisplayPort supports CEC.
From Wikipedia:
The DisplayPort AUX channel is a half-duplex (bidirectional) data channel used for miscellaneous additional data beyond video and audio, such as EDID (I2C) or CEC commands.
huh didn’t know. does it work in practice tho?
More people should try DP.
I thought I had NSFW turned off… 🤣
What do Dill Pickles have to do with being work safe?
When you’re trying to get into DPs, the outside can be slippery and the screw part can be tight! Very dangerous for the workplace.
So why is it rejected?
Just because they’re still trying to use HDMI to prevent piracy? Who in fuck’s name is using HDMI capture for piracy? On a 24fps movie, that’s 237MB of data to process every second just for the video. A 2 hour movie would be 1.6TB. Plus the audio would likely be over 2TB.
I’ve got a Jellyfin server packed with 4K Blu-ray rips that suggest there are easier ways to get at that data.
The CEO’s of the media companies are all fucking dinosaurs who still think VCRs should have been made illegal. You will never convince them that built in copy protection is a dumb idea and a waste of time.
Where are they finding dinosaurs to fuck that know what a VCR is?
Mine can barely work the TV remote!
Even despite that HDMI capture is simply an awful way of obtaining that data, it’s even more pathetic when that “protection” can be defeated by a $30 capture card on Amazon…
The profiles HDMI 2.1 enables are even worse - 4k@120fps type stuff. Not exactly something needed for a movie.
HDMI Splitter + capture card.
No video put on a streaming service produced in the next 40 years will need HDMI 2.1 to display.
Can’t you compress what the HDMI outputs in real time so that it would have a normal size?
Sure. But why bother when you can rip it right from the disc in higher quality than you could ever hope to capture in real time?
Most people don’t pirate 4K media due to file size and internet speed constraints. Most people pirate 1080p video. There’s also the prospect of people pirating live television, which HDMI capture would be perfect for.
Then most people need get a better ISP. My crappy $60/mo fixed 5G can download an entire 4K film in under 10 minutes or start streaming it within a second. Y’all should see if there are any options beyond cable and DSL in your town. You might be pleasantly surprised what’s available these days.
Is that not a compressed stream though? Genuinely asking. A 4k blu ray rip and a 4k stream from a service (or whatever it saves for offline viewing on an app) a pretty different. I think things are getting conflated with capturing live 4k television and capturing a 4k blu ray as it plays, which both might be using an HDMI cable.
I use Stremio and only stream full 4K Blu Ray rips, with HDR and Dolby Atmos and all. So nothing is recompressed. 50-70GB files but it starts streaming almost instantly.
I have a poor 5G signal due to a tree that’s blocking my view of the antenna, so I get anywhere between 400Mbps and 1400Mbps (I’m supposed to get a gigabit but it’s usually closer to 500). Even with a poor signal it’s still way faster than any other ISP in my town.
DisplayPort for life!
Is there a reason or way to prevent display port from having so many connection issues specifically on port replicators (docking stations)?
In corporate environments I find so many times that you plug them up over and over, unplug over and over and check the connection a million times before turning everything off one final time, holding the power button on everything (kind of like an smc reset) and then booting up everything like you originally did and they come up. Is this a result of the devices trying to remember a previous setup or is their an easy way to avoid it?
I’ve hooked up dozens of them and still ran into issues when a family member brought a setup home to work when they were sick last week.
We use Dell WD-19 docks. Not sure if you use similar. Updated dock firmware and laptop drivers made a difference for us with connection issues. Sometimes you gotta perform a reset on them to make them behave (disconnect dock power and USB-C and hold power button for just over 15 sec). Sometimes the laptop NVRAM needs to be reset instead (for Dell, disconnect all devices and power while off and hold button for just over 30 sec). Overall, though, no huge issues with DP specifically if the dock and laptop firmwares are up to date. Third-party docks/replicators definitely have way more issues, though.
DP for life!
ftfy
That doesn’t do audio too though right?
It does since version 1.0 it seems?
TIL
Always thought that display port is better anyways lol. Anything that HDMI does or have that display port doesnt?
Support on low end devices
I guess HDMI-CEC and some DRM.
DisplayPort supports CEC and HDCP DRM.
I have yet to see a reason why HDMI is better than DP other than what port is available on your device.
Really? Seems like I am late to the party.
Yeaj, unfortunately most TVs only have HDMI, not DP
Protocol level DRM?
Audio? Forgive my ignorance, It is out of actual ignorance or rather lack of knowledge
Naah, DisplayPort carries everything from audio, USB, displays, etc. Version 1.2 even allows daisy chaining displays, so you don’t have to have number of cables going to your PC. When it comes to audio, version 1.4 supports 1536 kHz maximum sample rate at 24bits and supports 32 individual audio channels. Scary good! Overall it’s significantly better protocol.
DisplayPort supports audio.
This is really frustrating. This is the only thing holding Linux gaming back for me, as someone who games with a AMD GPU and an OLED TV. On Windows 4k120 works fine, but on Linux I can only get 4k60. I’ve been trying to use an adapter, but it crashes a lot.
AMD seemed to be really trying to bring this feature to Linux, too. Really tragic that they were trying to support us, and some anti-open source goons shot them down.
I’m a bit confused by your comment. I have a 120Hz Monitor and use an AMD GPU on linux without issues. Connected via the display port on my GPU to the HDMI Port on my monitor (because samsung does not enable DDC on the display port for some reason).
I’m using an LG C2 Oled TV that doesnt have displayport.
I have one too. Go take a look at Cable Matters. I am able to play games at 4k120 with my mac. See if something will work for you and you can always send a message to their customer support to ask questions.
Yeah thats the one I have. Maybe I’ll ask their support. It has the latest firmware but it’s so flaky about being able to do high bandwidth.
I’m using an LG C2 Oled TV that doesnt have displayport.
Connected via the display port on my GPU to the HDMI Port on my monitor
ichbinjasokreativ seems to suggest that the viewing device he/she connects to is done via HDMI, the same as your OLED TV.
Unless I’m missing something?
Edit: You discuss this issue further down in the topic, so no need to reply.
Could have saved myself the time of replying to you if I had scrolled all the way through first, then backtracked, but that’s kind of unintuitive to do, especially on a cell phone browser.
No worries, I didn’t see they meant an adapter cable, either.
ive found that the issue in my experience is that X11 only supports a max of 4k60, but Wayland supports 4k120 and beyond. I dont think the cable matters as the same cable im using works on windows with 4k160.
are you unable to use display port?
The OLED TV probably only has HDMI. TVs don’t normally have DisplayPort
Should… should we sic EU on them?
They won’t change…
Apple didn’t want to change either hehe
Yeah, what I mean is that HDMI can be easier replaced than Apple :)
We already have DisplayPort, which is open source. If possible, we should stop buying HDMI cables, and stop using HDMI as much as possible.
Boo! Get off the stage HDMI Forum!
This sucks as all new TVs use HDMI2.1 for modern features and modern games consoles rely on those for 4k 60Hz HDR, etc.
So now Valve can’t just make their own home console with Steam OS for TVs directly (and support high-end features at least).
Alright, from now on I will never again buy any electronics with HDMI.
Eli5, what are the security risks of my HDMI cable?
Piracy being easier is the only risk. Once again ruining the experience of legitimate customers to try and stop a thing that they have had no success at even slowing down.
Even further, it made it more expensive to buy products from all the dumb licensing fees that all the middlemen try to shoehorn in.
What’s the over/under that this was about preventing people getting around HDCP using a modified driver?
DisplayPort supports HDCP as well though?
If we had to relay exclusively on non-proprietary protocols, I doubt that GNU/Linux would have gone anywhere beyond the Commodore 64
Linux never ran on the Commodore 64 (1984). That was way before Linux was released by Linus Torvalds (1991).
I’d also like to point out that we do all rely on non-proprietary protocols. Examples you used today: TCP and HTTP.
If we didn’t have free and open source protocols we’d all still be using Prodigy and AOL. “Smart” devices couldn’t talk to each other, and the world of software would be 100-10,000x more expensive and we’d probably have about 1/1,000,000th of what we have available today.
Every little thing we rely on every day from computers to the Internet to cars to planes only works because they’re not relying on exclusive, proprietary protocols. Weird shit like HDMI is the exception, not the rule.
History demonstrates that proprietary protocols and connectors like HDMI only stick around as long as they’re convenient, easy, and cheap. As soon as they lose one of those properties a competitor will spring up and eventually it will replace the proprietary nonsense. It’s only a matter of time. This news about HDMI being rejected is just another shove, moving the world away from that protocol.
There actually is a way for proprietary bullshit to persist even when it’s the worst: When it’s mandated by government.
Why? Most software wasn’t proprietary before companies realized they could make more money at your expense (not all the profit is going into making a better product).
If given the choice of an uncomfortable dormitory or a comfortable jail, at least the residents can improve the living areas in the former.
Parent is right though. Unix being proprietary is why the GNU project was started, and why the Linux kernel and BSDs rose above.
