A lot of Redditors hate the Reddit IPO | Reddit warned us that its users were a risk factor, and boy do they sound excited about shorting its stock.::Reddit seems like a likely candidate for a meme stock. But the actual reaction suggests that r/WallStreetBets isn’t going to send the stock to the moon.
Reminder that shorting is a high risk play and you should never make investment decisions out of spite.
I think this company is deeply and uniquely incompetent and will never deliver on its objectives.
Instructions unclear, purchased Lemmy stock using Amazon gift cards
Kitboga, this you?
100%, this is a trap being set for retail investors… not touching this even if I had a 1000ft pole.
To quote XKCD’s “Engineer Syllogism”:
-
I am good with numbers and math.
-
The stock market is mostly numbers and math.
-
Therefore, I would be – wait, where did all my money go?
Second premise is false
No shit Sherlock
-
A reminder that the stock market and any kind of high level money market of any kind including digital money … is a rich man’s game where poor are by design destined to lose.
This is a gross over simplification. Yes, rich people can have higher risk tolerance, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be going long on index funds and otherwise safe, low risk investments for retirement with what they can afford to.
Yes, rich people can have higher risk tolerance
It’s not just risk tolerance. The very rich can manipulate the market in ways that the poor can’t.
You don’t need to manipulate markets to dollar cost average the S&P500 for 40 years and retire. This is a get rich slow scheme that’s worked since the inception of index funds.
Yeah, and some rich people may do that. But, other rich people aren’t satisfied with the returns of an index fund, so they’ll manipulate the markets to get higher returns.
Playing the stock market at all is a form of gambling. You should never gamble money you aren’t completely willing to lose.
And with shorting there’s no upper limit to what you can lose.
Not true
It is true.
You buy a stock for $30. At worst it gets to $1 and you lose $29.
You short a stock for $30. There is no upper limit to how high it can go.
In theory that’s true but you’ll get liquidated at some point.
No. There are lots of ways to short a stock which just means betting that a stock will fall. If you buy Puts you go short, you can only lose the money you spent on the Puts. What you are talking about is unhedged short selling but that is far from the only method to short a stock.
Yeah, if there’s a “Superstonk” style event, the shares might jump to $1000 per share.
Say you shorted 100 shares. If you shorted it at $30, the absolute maximum you could make is just under $30 per share, or $3000. But, if it jumps to $1000 per share, you would lose $970 per share, and owe $97,000.
Maybe it’s not technically possible for there to be “no upper limit” to what you could lose, but you could easily lose many multiples of the maximum possible gain.
No you should make investment decisioms purely for the fun of it.
Also, WSB has been wanting to short reddit for literally years, so this is barely news.
Also this scrambling to make Reddit “profitable” and fucking Spez pays himself nearly $200 million a year. Fucking ridiculous. Burn it down. Build something better that hasn’t been captured by complete twats.
Nintendo CEO cutting his salary in half to avoid laying off workers after the Wii U fails versus whatever the fuck Reddit is doing
Excuse me, is this for real?
How can nintendo ceo be this based
I hate Huffman as much as the next guy, but the $193 million factoid is misleading clickbait nonsense. His actual salary is apparently $400k, the rest is “stock value” or whatever. Reddit is not giving 25% of its yearly revenue to the CEO.
This argument is oft repeated but It’s Bullshit. If it wasn’t valuable why is Spez okay with it?
Stock grants not being direct Income isn’t clickbait nonsense. It’s actually DELIBERATE: Spez doesn’t pay income taxes on a majority of his income. Capital gains tax has a lot of loopholes that can be exploited.
This just gives spez more money and he can cash out in the IPO.
For anyone that’s fallen for the “{wealthy person} doesn’t actually have ${huge number} because it’s stock” thing, here’s how it works.
- Wealthy people with lots of stock get access to very, very cheap credit. Not credit cards like the plebs get with a 23% APR, multi million dollar lines of credit from places like Goldman Sachs with hyper low interest rates.
- Wealthy people use that credit to live indistinguishably from a person that actually has the vast wealth that they have access to. Spez might “only” make $400k but if he has access to $50M in cheap credit it spends all the same.
- Wealthy people enjoying their access to cheap credit which spends the same as income then get to dodge income taxes and instead use the more favorable capital gains tax rates.
- As a fun bonus, they also get to go “you morons I don’t have $200M that’s all just on paper, I only pay myself $10 a year because I’m a man of the people. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to get on this private jet”
You might be wondering, why do they get this cheap credit? Because it’s a very safe bet for the financial institute, they are acting as a sort of time arbitrage mechanism for the person they are extending credit to. Since they perform this function they can be relatively assured that this will allow their client to sell their stocks, not because they have to cover expenses, but because capital gains protections and the market is favorable. It also aids in fostering a positive relationship with someone with a lot of wealth which is something financial institutes have an interest in doing.
All the actors are doing what’s in their rational self-interest. The end result is that Spez can access a large part of that $200M as liquid cash right now through credit with one hand and with the other wave you off and say “those are stocks I actually only got paid $400k”
How do they pay back those low-interest loans? I’ve always been curious.
Eventually they do need to pay back the loan, the low interest rates just make it so that they can choose to sell their stocks in the most favorable way.
This is why it makes sense for the financial institute to give out the loan in the first place.
So here’s the scenario. Let’s say you wake up tomorrow and somehow find yourself with $200M worth of stock. You are now “worth” $200M so you’d like to start living like it! You want to go buy a mansion and a nice new car and a private chef. Problem is, none of those people take stock, they all want money.
Goldman Sachs goes, “hey, I’ll loan you the money really cheap, you have to pay me back with interest, but since you have $200M in stock you can sell some of that later and pay me back”
This is great for you because you get to enjoy the mansion and new car and private chef right now. If you sold the stock right now you’d get taxed as if it were income at 38% but if you hold the stock for a few years when you sell it it will be considered capital gains and only taxed at 10% (or 15%, whichever the rate is). In addition, you don’t have to go to the stock market and sell for whatever they want right now, you can wait until the value of your stock is really high and selling is very advantageous for you.
So you do have to pay back the money, but this is still a really sweet deal because you can enjoy all the nice things right now and you get to avoid that extra ~30% you would pay in taxes if you sold it right now.
As long as the amount you saved in taxes outweighs the amount you pay in interest, this is a great deal for you. And for the financial institute it’s low risk (they extended you $10M backed by $200M in assets) and when you repay they make back enough in interest to make it worthwhile.
You get more money in your pocket, the bank gets more money in its pocket, from their point of view this was a win win. The losers are the market suffering a higher price for the stock because the supply was artificially constrained by you having access to this credit (otherwise you’d have sold shares to buy a mansion and nice car and private chef) and the taxpayer who was to shoulder a heavy tax burden because you converted your income into capital gains.
The one thing that definitely isn’t happening is Bezos or Musk or any of these other “they are only rich on paper” people clipping coupons to make ends meet. They live like rich people because the have access to plenty of money secured by their less liquid assets
This was a very informative read I understand things better now. Thanks!
Almost always executive compensation is partly stock. That doesn’t change the fact that he was compensated that much. You can’t say Elon Musk isn’t worth 200b$ because it’s not liquid.
I mean, you could say that because it’s just an estimate of what his assets are worth using the current valuations of his holdings. It’s more of a statistical average of what he could be worth then a concrete value. You can’t know the actual value unless someone makes an offer and it’s accepted. If he’s feeling pressure to sell, it will be lower than that. If he isn’t, it will be higher than that.
Whole Wall Street is built upon this “estimation” idea. No reason to nitpick about it when it comes to executive compensation.
Huffman’s wages of $193 million per year is absurd. That’s double what Tim Apple makes. It’s almost 4x what Microsoft’s CEO, Satya Nadella, makes, and 4x what Netflix’s CEO, Reed Hastings, makes. During the writer’s strike a big deal was made over David Zaslav’s compensation, but even that’s not as much as Huffman makes.
Imagine they reduced Steve Huffman’s wages by $100 million per year. For that much, they could give the top 10,000 moderators $10,000 each per year. For some, that might not match the work they put in, but it would sure be a nice gesture, and would make them feel like the work they were doing was appreciated. Meanwhile, Huffman would still be one of the highest paid CEOs in the world.
P.S. stop saying “spez”, the guy has a real life name, and that real life name should be the one that’s tarnished.
Steve Huffman fucks underage goats.
And while Huffman now thinks that Reddit as a corpus of training data for AI is valuable, he let his board member Sam Altman siphon off Reddit data for free; Altman was, and still is, the CEO of OpenAI. Altman’s also Reddit’s third-largest shareholder and owns more than twice as many shares as Huffman. Altman was the CEO of Reddit for eight days.
Say what now
Huffman also made $193 million bucks, according to the article.
How much is a dollar buck in USD?
Nobody’s doing shit with this stock.
It’s all a manufactured cover story for hedge fund/institutional manipulation to blame retail for volatility and attempted fleecing.
I’m thinking of shorting it. My friend is definitely shorting it.
I’ll be shorting it the minute outs come out. Won’t buy naked shorts though
fuck spez
fuck spez
suck fpez
Reddit’s owners are the risk factor.
No, you’re seeing this the wrong way. The iceberg stands for urgently needed structural reforms in the body of the Titanic. After the project is completed, they’ll make movies about the whole thing, you’ll see!
Fuck Steven Huffman.
Fuck spez
Dont theu just want it to crash hard so they can then buy into it at a cheaper rate.
Why would the price go up?
The only way to make money is sell comments to AI developers, and users hate that.
It’s completely unprofitable and the days of throwing tech bro money into bottomless pits is over
This feels like another “Netflix are coming after password sharing, HOW DARE THEY, EVERYONE WILL CANCEL AND THEY WILL BE BANKRUPT IN 6 MONTHS” circlejerk we recently read.
Then Netflix announces a pretty good quarter and all of a sudden these people are silent.
This feels like it’ll be that. I could be wrong. But it really feels like the echo camber will lose its mind again in a few months when the stock is priced above zero and maybe actually doing quite well.
LOL i remember how people would rage on Reddit about Netflix and act like they were the worst company with the worst lineup in all of history. Then the following month, subscribers increased. It really became a hate meme.
Vocal minority as always
This pre-IPO invitation to buy is the “pump” part of pump and dump, of course everyone hates it, lol.
“I think it’s pretty cool that Reddit is doing this IPO offer to their mods and users,” a Reddit user who asked me to identify him as Kevon tells me. “It’s a nice little thank you that actually may have some monetary value.”
Kevon’s considering buying shares in the Reddit program, and may buy more once it goes public, if he feels the stock is undervalued.
Kevon sounds like a nice guy, but someone should explain to him the difference between being given options and buying shares at the IPO price. Reddit’s not doing him any favors.
Dunno…if I can buy, then dump everything 15 seconds after open, it’d probably be an easy win.
There will be a spike in the first minute of trading, then it will crash and burn.
